Wednesday, February 3, 2010

People in R&S section often use the word illusion, false or unreal – how do we define it?

How can unreal stem forth from Real?People in R%26amp;S section often use the word illusion, false or unreal – how do we define it?
You have to choose answer from any one below for your question:





Maya as Goddess, Maya as concept, Maya as an illusion or as matter (prakriti, real).





In Vedanta philosophy all roads lead to the SAME destination!


One has the choice to choose any path!!





Maya is like Theory of Light (Wave theory, Corpuscular / Matter theory).





How can unreal stem forth from Real?





Yes with reason - Advaita Vedanta philosophy


No with reason - Vishistadvaita Vedanta philosophy


Never with reason - Dvaita Vedanta philosophy





Maya (Goddess),(illusion/ false/ unreal), (prakriti,real):





Maya (Sanskrit माया māyā, in Indian religions, is a polyvalent term. Maya, is the principal deity who creates, perpetuates and governs the phantasmagoria, illusion and dream of duality in the phenomenal Universe.





Maya as the Goddess:





In Hinduism, Maya is also seen as a form of Laksmi, a Divine Goddess. Her most famous explication is seen in the Devi Mahatmyam, where she is known as Mahamaya.


Essentially, Mahamaya (great Maya) both blinds us in delusion (moha) and has the power to free us from it. Maya, superimposed on Brahman, the one divine ground and essence of monist Hinduism, is envisioned as one with Laxmi, Durga, etc.





Shri Ramakrishna often spoke of Mother Maya and combined deep Hindu allegory with the idea that Maya is a lesser reality that must be overcome so that one is able to realize their true Self.





In the Hindu scripture 'Devi Mahatmyam,' Mahamaya (Great Maya) is said to cover Vishnu's eyes in Yoganidra (Divine Sleep) during cycles of existence when all is resolved into one. By exhorting Mahamaya to release Her illusory hold on Vishnu, Brahma is able to bring Vishnu to aid him in killing two demons, Madhu and Kaitabh, who have manifested from Vishnu's sleeping form. Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa often spoke of Mother Maya and combined deep Hindu allegory with the idea that Maya is a lesser reality that must be overcome so that one is able to realize his or her true Self.





Maya as Mahalaxmi was called upon when the gods and goddesses were helpless against the demon Mahisasura. The combined rage of all the gods including Brahma Vishnu and Shiva created her. She is the most powerful of all the gods and goddesses in heaven. The gods gave her ornaments, weapons and her bearer,the lion. She was unassailable. She called upon the demon, had a fierce battle against Mahisasura and his huge army herself. She killed the demon and restored heaven back to the gods and goddesses. Thus She is even now the protector of the universe which is lying in her lap.





Maya in Hindu philosophy:





In Advaita Vedanta philosophy, Maya is the limited, purely physical and mental reality in which our everyday consciousness has become entangled. Maya is held to be an illusion, a veiling of the true, unitary Self — the Cosmic Spirit also known as Brahman. The concept of Maya was expounded in the Hindu scriptures known as the Upanishads. Many philosophies or religions seek to ';pierce the veil'; of Maya in order to glimpse the transcendent truth, from which the illusion of a physical reality springs, drawing from the idea that first came to life in the Hindu stream of Vedanta.





Maya is neither true nor untrue. Since Brahman is the only truth, Maya cannot be true. Since Maya causes the material world to be seen, it cannot be untrue. Hence, Maya is described as indescribable. She has two principle functions — one is to veil Brahman and obscure and conceal it from our consciousness. The other is to present and promulgate the material world and the veil of duality instead of Brahman. The veil of Maya is piercable and with dilligence and grace, may be permanently rent. Consider an illusion of a rope being confused as a snake in the darkness. Just as this illusion gets destroyed when true knowledge of the rope is perceived, similarly, Maya gets destroyed for a person when they perceive Brahman with transendental knowledge.





A metaphor is also given — when the reflection of Brahman falls on Maya, Brahman appears as God (the Supreme Lord). Pragmatically, where the duality of the world is regarded as true, Maya becomes the divine magical power of the Supreme Lord. Maya is the veritable fabric of duality and she performs this role at the behest of the Supreme Lord. God is not bound by Maya, just as a magician is not illusioned and deluded by their own magic.





Maya and Reality:





1) Advaitins believe everything is “Maya” except Paramatma. This means even the whole world is an illusion. To explain this, advaitins have three types of reality.





They are:


•Apparent Reality (Pratibhasika Sat) – Example: Mistaking rope for a snake.


•Relative Reality (Vyavaharika Sat) – Example: World, Sky, Water, Fire, Earth etc


•Absolute Reality (Paramarthika Sat) – Brahman





For Shankara, maya is an illusory appearance of reality, occurring when the plurality of the phenomenal world is superimposed on the unity of Brahman.





2) Vishistadvaitins believe exactly the opposite. Every object, Jivatma, and the world are and even dreams very much real. Mistaking a rope for a snake is just an illusion, but the rope exists and real and so does the snake. Vishistadvaitins interpret Maya as matter (prakriti) and not as an illusion. Upanishads explain at great lengths the creation of cosmos and the coming about of the matter from Mahat. Upanishads say the Brahman created the world out of Maya. Some people interpret Maya as an illusion and some as matter.





The reasons given by vishistadvaitins for considering the world is real are:





•Vedas describe Brahman as: Brahman is that, from whom all these beings are born, by whom all these beings live, in whom all these beings rest, after death.


•Brahman is the material cause of the world. He therefore evolves into the world. So, how can the world, which has evolved from Brahman, be unreal?


•Brahman is also instrumental cause of this world, he creates the world. So, how can a thing, which has been created by Brahman, be unreal?





For Ramanuja, however, maya is real and is the plurality of attributes which are manifested by Brahman. Maya is the way in which Brahman is manifested in the phenomenal world.





3) Dvaitins believe that the world is real and the manifest world is real and eternal too, unlike Shankara’s world which is Maya. Dvaitins subscribe to five eternal differences in relationship between jiva-atman, Brahman and the world.





The differences are:


•between Brahman and the individual soul


•between soul and matter


•between one soul and another soul


•between the soul and matter


•between one piece of matter and another.





This is the important distinction between Vishishtadvaita and Dvaita.People in R%26amp;S section often use the word illusion, false or unreal – how do we define it?
Right. Illusion is false perception,false and unreal is not true to 'fact'! Unreal has no existence in reality, it is only the construct of the mind which itself is a myth as U.G.Krishnamurthy calls it: Mind is a Myth. Mirror reflect reality, often distorts it too(medium effect), but what is in the mirror is not real and yet it reflect what is out there.Mirror reflection can not be said as stemming from the real, poor 'real' has no role in it! Keeping the mirror/mind clean, pure,highly transparent alone would resolve the so called dichotomy posed in your question as, then, the reality is 'seen' as it is. Till then, R%26amp;S, people and the world keep on throwing myths of words like illusion , false and unreal!!
The answer given by C. Sri Vidya Rajagopalan is a very good one. I feel foolish in try to give my own answer but i will try.





Reality is analogue but our perception of reality is digital. We name and label things to put them in box's. these symbols of the world around us are the illusion. By trying to classify everything our simplification means we do see the totality of it. We then begin seeing the world in terms of our mental symbols thus mistaking the map for the terrain. This is the way we change reality into illusion.
real is the root of unreal
As in Dream when there are objects created and perceived, and in reality these objects does not exist. Similarly it is said about the Reality or Soul which is defined as Pure Consciousness.





I have read a story where Lord Shiva teaches Sage Vashista about the nature of Reality, there he says that this Pure Consciousness comes under delusion that is knower and that there is a object of knowledge. Then from that comes everything such as mind, ego etc etc.





A Rope may seem like a snake to a deluded, but when he knows the truth then there is only rope but no snake.
That which is false is usually an imitation of that which is real. False teachers take the real thing and add some of their own false teachings to it. In the process of adding these lies, it is made counterfeit. (The religious cults).


It is something like rat poison. Rat poison is made up of 90% good food, but the 10% poison is enough to kill the rat.


In oder to protect oneself from these counterfeit teachings, we must study and know the truth.


Bankers are not taught the study of counterfiet money. They are taught the details of the real thing. Then they can identify that which is counterfeit.
Illusion is something which does not exist permanently.It keeps changing.At first whatever we see is real for us.Once we come to know the truth we know that is not real.





Any thing we see in full conscious, that is observing from the root, everything is unreal.





Because we find the unreal,we search for the real.





The real is something which has the potential of the unreal.
It is a dyssynchronicity in sense perception and the thing in its self. Inaccurate sense perception is partly corrected in stereoscopic sense systems, increasing probability for predictable triangulation for object placement. You notice all sense systems have symmetry. That is for enhancement for synchronistic subsystem sense agents so that multiple sensing for one thing checks for errors in a things relations to other things, knowing what a thing is not enhances our knowledge derived immediately from sense impression of the thing its self. Having more than one affirms the others in their synchronicity (same timeness). A loss of time sense equals loss of real sense and the relativity for space perception.
The same way that being illiterate derives from being literate
Shanky, i love this question...although i feel inadequate to answer it. C. Sri Vidya Rajagopalan has introduced a lifetime's information to chew upon...and while i reel from attempted consumption of that information, i also feel an ';opening'; taking place that absorbs, sifts, and accepts ';allness and nothingness,'; ';limitation and infinity,'; ';temporariness and eternity.'; In other words, everything that is or ever was or ever will be is contained in Source/God/All That Is. Eras and individuals have received revelations, that have'; informed'; them, and off-shoots or branches of interpretation have ';manifested,'; from them. i see the metaphor of Source reducting (my own made up word, apparently, but none other will do to illustrate ';reduction';) or ';stepping down'; Its unknowability to knowable (though perhaps, only partially knowable) increments, much as the Power Station must step down through transformers its vast electrical energy for use by householders. The small amount of electricity we receive through the outlets in our houses does not invalidate its greater source, nor is it, therefore, an illusion, false, or unreal. Yet, these are the words we have chosen to designate separation from source/Source, having to rely on the limitations of language. We cannot say that Real/Source/Power Station does not exist merely because we are focused on It/It/its lesser aspect as unreal/source/electrical outlet. We struggle to differentiate this from That, and in doing so find language awkward and incapable of speaking Truth. We could as easily say ';low,'; as opposed to ';High';, or ';here'; as opposed to ';There'; in our attempt to show separateness from source/Source. So, technically, none of these word choices are perfect or pure; and they do focus on separation rather than oneness/Oneness (the containment of the ';lesser'; within the ';greater';). i am struggling right now to select from inadequate and misleading pointers to that which i am trying to say...it cannot be done. So, while it is true that nothing unreal can stem from the Real, it is our human way to see only the finite. i am confident that your point is well taken by all readers. However, what's a human to do...until we are ';realized,'; we are limited in perception and experience.





i am Sirius
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